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Is it unethical for findoms to not present themselves as findoms upfront, but rather waiting until deeper into the relationship?

@Garrison if that’s the dynamic they intend on pursuing with you, yeah they should be upfront about that. Fetlife as an example, if that’s what you’re there for, put it in your profile so people not looking for that dynamic know before they waste their time sending a message.

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@squeedoodle yeah my experience on fetlife, dipping my toes into the online dom area, was that every one of them was a scammer or a "stealth findom"

@Garrison voted "idk" because it depends on whether the sub can realistically say no or not. i.e. how easy is it for the sub to say no and walk away?

@eject in the scenario I'm thinking of, it's less a choice and more an ultimatum.

@Garrison oh then who cares if it's ethical or not, it's a huge fucking red flag get out of there already

@eject wtf do you mean "who cares if it's ethical or not"? that question is at the heart of who we allow into our space

@Garrison i think the second half of my reply answers that already

@Garrison you're right, it was a poorly thought out reply.

basically surprise findom ultimatum is such a dick move i don't think there needs to be any discussion about it. i don't think i've ever joined a community that doesn't have rules against that sort of thing fwiw, it's quite obviously not informed consent

@eject unfortunately, the other discussion i'm having via this poll proves that it apparently does need discussion

@Garrison Voted No, but don't think it's more fucked up or unethical than normal marketing practices of business in general.

@sxsdv1 a human being is not a business, so i don't think that's a fair comparison

@sxsdv1 nor do false advertising laws apply to doms on the internet

@Garrison someone working as a findom is doing business even if it's mostly black market and unregulated. Tricking people into believing you're friends or have some deeper connection sucks but not unique to findommes

@Garrison yes, and lets be clear I don't think it's ethical.

But a lot of things are unethical and I feel like singling these people out when their practices isn't really that different is a bit odd

@sxsdv1 so what in the ever loving fuck am i supposed to do about unethical behavior if calling out examples of unethical behavior is... "odd"?

@Garrison I don't think calling it out is wrong, and I'm backing you on that.

You did seem to disagree with my statement that's not more fucked up than marketing in general. Which to clarify I meant to say I think most marketing is predatory and scummy to begin with.

@sxsdv1 sure it is, but, advertisements don't try to hide the fact that they are selling something. no one watches a commercial and comes away thinking that they can get the product for no cash outlay.

the same cannot be said about personal ads for dommes who intend to spring findom on the applicants at a later time.

so yes, i do think it's more fucked up.

@Garrison shades of fucked up, maybe

I see a lot of communication from companies where they try to sell the idea of being your friend, or being in some exclusive club, or we're like a lovely community with our customers

Being in an intimate relationship is a bit more of course but also depends on how long you're stringing someone along for.

@sxsdv1 really. you think that whether or not lying to your partner in an intimate relationship is ethical depends on how long the lie persists?

please tell me you don't mean that.

@Garrison no, if it's gone so far you're considering someone your partner it's clearly well beyond fucked up.

The scenario I had in mind when reading the poll title was more like someone showing up presenting themselves as a domme interested you and then after chatting for an hour or two time springs the findom card.

But I realize maybe you had something different in mind?

@sxsdv1 do you think it's ethical after an hour or two? how long until it's not ethical?

@sxsdv1 in my mind, we're talking consent issues here. you don't trick someone into one kind of relationship while intending to make it another kind of relationship, that is nonconsensual.

@Garrison no, I don't think it's ethical. Ideally it would be clear up front or at least in the first minutes of communication as your sorting out both of the parties intentions

@sxsdv1 ok so what is it that "depends on how long you're stringing someone along for"?

@Garrison meaning I think it gets increasingly more scummy the further it goes. We're really grading the levels hell here but I think we could place regular marketing tricks along the same scale and these findommes wouldn't categorically always be the worst. Though still fucking bad.

Is stringing someone along thinking you will be their dom for an hour worse than tricking someone into joining your multilevel marketing scheme? Or so much worse they can't even be compared?

@sxsdv1 yeah, it's worse. it's sexual, it's intimate, and it violates consent. and if you don't agree, could you please just block?

@Garrison I need to step away from this discussion, I'm clearly not explaining what I'm thinking good enough because it ends up sounding like I'm defending some absolutely shit behaviour.

Should have left it at "No, that's fucked up" because it does sum up my thoughts on the specifics of the question.

@sxsdv1 are you not attempting to make an equivalence between scummy marketing and sexual misconduct, because i need the answer to be that you're not

@Garrison my original comment was a flippant for effect. Probably shouldn't have considering the gravity of the topic.

I don't mean to draw an actual equivalence between the two but wanted to point out this other thing that share some characteristics also suck.

I do believe some marketing is abusive, but you're right the sexual and intimate nature sets it apart.

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@Garrison and sorry not trying to pick a fight here I think I just needed to vent a bit at the system, man

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